GMB - What is your assessment of the moment of the gaming activity in Brazil after approval of MP 846 that legalized sports betting and how important is this achievement for other modes of the market?
Ricardo Namen - The sports betting market and the step given by Congress approving the provisional measure may be the most important in the history of legalization of gaming in Brazil. It seems that the government and Congress, in tune with society this time, begins to realize that Brazil can no longer live against international trends in this matter. The whole world has legalized the activity. Brazil, which is now taking the first step, shows sensitivity and opens up a perspective for us to gradually achieve the other gaming modalities, because they must also be regulated as there will always be an entrepreneur to offer what society wants. We open a perspective that, once this first obstacle is broken, the other types of gaming will be approved and regulated by the government.
During his speech, Rep. Evandro Roman said that fundamentalist deputies are even in favor of the activity, but they can not justify their position for their audience. In your opinion, what should be the conduct of the gaming industry to facilitate such communication and break old stereotypes against the activity?
Personally I have been in this market fighting for the legalization of gaming since 1981 when I assumed the presidency of the National Pro-Legalization Committee of Casinos in Brazil, an entity that was founded by Ciro Batelli, who was the great pioneer in this fight for legalization our industry.
During these last 30 years I have participated and wlaked the national congress in several legislatures, knocking from door to door of the deputies to be able to clarify the legislative, the executive, the public, in general, of the positive and negative aspects of the gaming legalization. And what seems to me most important in these last three decades of struggle is that the focus of the issue has changed.
When we started to fight for the regulation of gaming the big questions were: 'Will we legalize gaming in Brazil or not?'; 'Is Brazil going to have a gaming market or is not it going to be?' This discussion no longer exists, it has been overcome, and the authorities, the executive, the legislature, the judiciary and society as a whole have understood that now Brazil has to decide whether either legal or illegal gambling. Not having gaming is no longer the issue, it is impossible not to have a betting market. What we are going to have is legal, well regulated gambling with the government collecting and distributing resources or illegal gambling led by militias, bandits, fringes exploiting society and stealing people.
In your opinion, what will be the greatest benefit that legalization of the activity will bring to Brazilian society? Will it be economic, social or criminal?
I see that in the first place is the protection of the person who has gaming addiction. The issue of ludopathy, which is the main argument of the opposites, for me should be the main argument of those who are favorable. There are studies worldwide showing that ludopathy where gambling is not regulated has frightening numbers, surpassing 5 to 6% of the population, which is left unattended.
In places where gambling is well regulated, it is only 2%, the average being 1%, and the industry creates resources to treat these people. So the issue of ludopathy is much better addressed with regulated gambling.
In the economic issue, there are studies of the Getulio Vargas Foundation itself that Brazil today moves around US$ 15.3 billion with illegal bets. If you compute the world average of 30% of tribute on this amount, over FGV number that is absolutely reliable, Brazil is not collecting around US$ 4.6 billion a year in taxes, money that could be targeted to areas who today need these resources.
In addition to ludopathy, that you mentioned, money laundering is also pointed out by the contrary to the regulation of gaming as a good reason for not regulating. What is your opinion on this topic?
You tell a lie and if it's repeated, it turns out to be true. This is the biggest fallacy of those who oppose the legalization of gaming. The COAF itself has already stated that 90% of the world's money laundering is done in the real state market and in the financial banking system. That is, gambling is not considered as an instrument of money laundering, it is only to have a rigid legislation, a correct and efficient regulation, with a very rigid inspection and you eliminate this problem, as the United States did.
In US, any gaming transaction above US$ 2,000 can be made in cash, but, it can not be bearer, it has to be nominal. If you are to play anywhere in US territory over US$ 2,000 you have to identify yourself; and any payment over US$ 10,000 has to be made through a bank document. So the control is absolutely easy and efficient.
Now, in the real estate market and in the banking system, there is money laundering with no doubt. So it is a fallacy that only here has become an argument for what they are opposed to, precisely because of the lack of argument. They create and invent arguments.
We talk about the arguments that are presented against the legalization of the activity. With regard to the people who raise these points, do you believe that some follow-up of society can be termed as an enemy of the activity?
I think today we have no enemies. There are people who are against and in a democratic regime it is normal that you have this fight of ideas. But today there is no contrary follow-up. The religious themselves have already understood that illegal gambling brings more harm than legal gambling and that the non-gambling figure, which would be the perfect world, does not exist. If there could be a world without gaming; I would also be in favor, but, it can not; then you have to opt for legal gambling with society by benefiting from good enforcement and good regulation or by illegal at the hand of outsiders.
What is your expectation for the new political framework of Brazil from January 2019 with a very renewed congress and the new government led by President-elect Jair Bolsonaro?
Not only the gaming sector, Brazil sees with great expectation the first steps of this government. Realistically, it does not seem to me that the legalization of gaming is a priority in the first actions of government, as he has a lot to do before worrying about it. But it is important that this issue continues to be discussed in the National Congress.
I am very surprised to hear, whenever we have a new parliament, with new deputies or new members of government, they say that we need to discuss the matter better. This issue has already been debated for 40 years in the National Congress, 120 projects, two special commissions with final power that took a year and a half each to finish the work, have already studied this subject exhaustively. Society has already changed its mind, it is largely favorable; 40 years ago it was not, it was halfway through and today 80% of the population is in favor. So, there is no more to discuss, now it needs political will and the government has the sensitivity, and it seems to me that this government that will assume, has to understand what the population wants.
The great hope that I have with this government is the harmony that it has with the majority of the people; perceives the yearnings of the people. They were elected because most wanted a change. And it seems that this tuning will be respected in our subject as well. I just do not think it's going to be immediate, but we expect it to come back over the next year. But, more importantly, we will start now, on January 1st, to work with the government to regulate what is already approved, which are sports betting, so that good regulation can emerge as an example for the whole country of how it is possible make betting fair, honest, well regulated and seriously. We have to lead by example. This regulation has to be done very well and it is up to the industry to make its contribution to the government to make that happen.
Source: Exclusive GMB
